1000% MAGAZINE is not for sale. We’ve repeatedly declined lucrative sponsorship deals and endorsement requests from the likes of Alphabet (Google), Pfizer, Boeing, Meta and Bob’s Big Boy. This policy isn’t written in stone so this feature is a rare exception.
We were contacted by the reputable publicist Nicola Cavalier, of the world-renowned Almost Famous talent agency, requesting we interview New York City based musician Shawn Ghost to promote his new album, To Live Outside The Law You Must Be Honest.
We’ve been fans of Shawn’s work since his early days with Los Angeles indie rock legends Sons of Jack. Nicola confirmed the feeling was mutual and promised full coverage reimbursement of all expenses related to our meeting. It was an offer too good to refuse.
We agreed to meet Shawn at an establishment of his choice. Based on his image and devotion to all things Rock N’ Roll, we were expecting somewhere that fit that bill, such as TV Eye in Ridgewood or Rocka Rolla in Williamsburg. It was with genuine surprise that we learned our venue for the interview was to be Marea, an upscale seafood restaurant on Central Park South.
With recording devices, prepared questions and buzzing anticipation all in tow, we made our way to Midtown Manhattan on a sultry Saturday afternoon in August, breezed through the foyer, greeted the maître d’ and were escorted to our reserved table to await our subject. Examining our surroundings, we noted how not one aspect of the environment, the background music or general ambiance had a single element of Rock N’ Roll. That is until we saw Shawn strolling through the dining room toward us. Every detail of his figure stood in sharp contrast to the other guests and the décor. He definitely did not blend in. He seems to be the type that doesn’t blend in well anywhere he goes, except maybe at Guitar Center or a concert by The Strokes.
For this occasion Shawn was wearing black high-top Converse sneakers, a black purple and blue Guns N’ Roses Use Your Illusion II t-shirt and faded blue jeans with band patches and scraps of odd blue fabric that resembled those worn by Neil Young in his Harvest era if he sold advertising space on his pants to Classic Rock radio stations. Over this ensemble was draped a sleeveless black leather motorcycle vest, along with several dangling rosaries and silver chains. Did we mention it was around eighty-eight degrees outside?
His hair is shaved close to the scalp on the sides of his head, yet hangs over his forehead in jagged bangs and very long in the back, curling around his collar. One could safely assume he brings a headshot of Guns guitarist Izzy Stradlin from 1987 to show his barber for reference, in the unlikely event that he ever does visit a barber. This hairstyle is not a traditional mullet, but we don’t know what it is. At least it appears to be recently washed, with light blond at the fringes and darker overall. Various silver and leather studded bracelets crowd his wrists. The fingernails of his left hand are painted a glittering blue. The polish is so unevenly faded and chipped away it would cause any professional manicurist to turn blue in disdain.
Our list of questions for this eccentric character was rapidly expanding as our waiter took our drink orders. Shawn opted for a Bloody Mary and we selected champagne. After exchanging the standard introductions and pleasantries we settled in and began what would prove to be a lively and at times awkward conversation, one we certainly won’t soon forget.
The following has not been edited and appears exactly as transcribed. Editorial notes appear in parentheses and / or italicized.
1000%: Thanks for joining us today! Everyone at the magazine, we’ve been fans of your music for a long time.
Shawn: Thank you for having me! I love the magazine, you have a really cool thing going. Happy to be here.
1000%: So how are you, how’s your summer been? You seem busy based on your social media.
Shawn: I have been busy. Busy is good. I’ve been playing a lot of shows, seeing a lot of shows, rehearsing, writing, you know, staying as much in the music as possible.
1000%: You just did a mini-tour around New York. How was that?
Shawn: Yeah, it was only around Brooklyn and Manhattan but it was close to a show every week, so why not call it a tour? I played with Olivia Hellman and Sunrisers at Arlene’s Grocery the first week of August, solo at The Parkside Lounge the following week, with my friend Tim on drums at Sleepwalk last week, and the last show of this run is at The Hart Bar with my All-Star band next week on August 29th. It’s gonna be a ripper, you should come out!
1000%: We’ll try! Can you put us on the guest list?
Shawn: Sure! No problem.
1000%: Excellent. Let’s get into the new album - To Live Outside The Law You Must Be Honest. That’s quite a title.
Shawn: Yeah, it’s a Bob Dylan line. It’s definitely the longest title of any project I’ve done but I like it.
1000%: What exactly does that title mean to you? It’s a bold statement.
Shawn: It means exactly what it says. It resonates with me a lot.
1000%: In what ways?
Shawn: Are you a David Lynch fan?
1000%: Yes, who isn’t?
Shawn: Have you ever seen that clip where he’s on an interview show and they’re asking him to explain and elaborate about the meaning of one of his films? He just says “No.” I love that.
1000%: OK then, so ‘living outside of the law’, are you trying to convey an anti-authority message with this album?
Shawn: I don’t make music with the intention of conveying any specific messages, but if that’s how you interpret it, then yeah. Whatever it means to you is what it means.
1000%: The music on this album is somewhat of a departure from your usual sound, say with Sunrisers for example. Were you setting out to try new approaches with these songs?
Shawn: Yeah. Guitar-based Rock N’ Roll has always been my main inspiration and passion, but you can’t play or listen to the exact same thing all day every day. Inevitably it gets stale that way. I didn’t set out with any direct intention, I just followed where the muse led me. There’s still a lot of guitar all over it, it’s not like I’ve abandoned my style. These are just different colors and shades of my music.
1000%: You’ve released some experimental electronic music before, haven’t you?
Shawn: Yeah, a few times. There’ve been different singles and EP’s over the years but I’ve collected them on my series called Wave Files. So far there’s been Volume I and Volume II. Volume III has been done for a while, I’m just waiting for the right time to put it out.
1000%: What muse inspired the sound of the Wave Files albums?
Shawn: There were a lot of different artists I was listening to when I made those. Probably the biggest and best overall was David Bowie, in particular the more instrumental stuff he did with Brian Eno on the Berlin Trilogy of albums. Such a rare and unique thing to say, I know. David Bowie being influential! (laughs) To millions, now and forever.
His catalog is so impressive. And extensive. And dense in places. He’s endlessly inspiring. It’s true for me and I’m sure for thousands, if not millions of artists, working in many different fields, not just music. If you find yourself stuck or on a plateau or things just aren’t flowing for you creatively, spend some time with Bowie and you’ll be back on track in no time. He’s that good.
1000%: Bowie makes an appearance on this new album, doesn’t he?
Shawn: Yeah, he’s the first voice you hear on the first track, the single, “Lions”. That’s him saying “It’s all in code.” That’s from the concert documentary Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars: The Motion Picture. I’ve only watched that about fifty times, so far. Classic.
1000%: You have an impressive list of guest stars on this album, everyone from Strokes singer Julian Casablancas to actors Macaulay Culkin and Christopher Walken, the cast from Beverly Hills 90210. How did you get the approval to license all these samples?
Shawn: There’s this really cool place in Hollywood called the Magic Castle, have you ever heard of it?
1000%: No, this is a real place?
Shawn: Yeah, it’s a castle-like mansion and private club for professional magicians. You have to be invited or know someone to go, they host dinner parties and magic shows. It’s really phenomenal, I was lucky I got to go. I went once with my girlfriend at the time and Ian Zering from 90210 was there. He played Steve Sanders. He was there with a date as well so I didn’t bother him during dinner, but after the show we were in the lot waiting for our cars and I said hello. He was very nice. He’s the last voice on “Lions”.
1000%: I take it you’re a big fan of Beverly Hills: 90210?
Shawn: Absolutely. Huge fan. I didn’t watch it when it first aired but I love the show. I have a few of the early seasons on DVD. Before I was into Rock N’ Roll stars as my idols there was nobody cooler than Dylan McKay (Perry’s character on 90210). Maybe James Dean, but that’s who they based him on.
1000%: One of the voices I didn’t recognize is the one on the song “Audio Commentary” talking about the American Dream. That’s a very interesting piece. Who is that?
Shawn: That’s the legendary author and activist Oscar Zeta Acosta, aka the Brown Buffalo. He was best friends with Hunter S. Thompson, he was the real life person that the Doctor Gonzo character was based on in Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas. He was an incredible, controversial, real life wild man who just disappeared in the mid-seventies. Hunter wrote a eulogy of sorts for him in Rolling Stone called “The Banshee Screams For Buffalo Meat”, which the Bill Murray as Hunter movie Where The Buffalo Roam was based on.
That’s one of the most singular songs I’ve ever made, in terms of structure and instrumentation. I wrote it on the bass guitar. The audio of Oscar is from the actual road trip he and Hunter went on to Vegas that became the book. He’s asking a waitress at a taco stand for directions to find the American Dream. It’s heavy. If you know Hunter and the legacy of that book it’s pretty important historically. In retrospect I should’ve included some audio of Hunter as well, but the song called for what’s in it. Some other time. Plus Hunter is already so famous, it’s nice to give Oscar some air-time.
1000%: Given the instrumental songs and other voices, you don’t sing very much on this album. When you do, one of the main lyrical themes seems to be “Fake it ‘til you make it”. Do you believe in that statement?
Shawn: I wouldn’t sing it if I didn’t believe it. Yes, I do, totally.
1000%: In your view, how does one fake it ‘til they make it?
Shawn: It’s different for everyone but the essential truth is the same. For example, here’s a Bowie story I love, just to prove my Bowie fan credentials, in case there’s any doubt. (laughs)
When he was touring to promote the Ziggy album, in 1972, his manager borrowed thousands upon thousands of dollars from his label, RCA, so David and his entourage could travel in limousines and stay in the very best hotels, like the Beverly Hills Hotel in LA or the Plaza here in New York. He didn’t have the sales or the income or the fame to justify any of it. They went into massive debt to create the image of Ziggy as this massive, fully-formed star. It was incredibly risky, but it worked. He believed in it and played the part and the media and the world was soon convinced the same. He convinced the universe in a way, and his dreams came true.
If you look at his early career prior to the Ziggy era, he was really floundering. He had a minor hit early on with “Space Oddity”, in 1969, but it was very much associated with the moon landing, so his record company saw it as a novelty song, not the classic it’s seen as today. On paper, David Bowie in 1972 was a failed one-hit wonder. That sounds harsh but it’s true.
But in Bowie’s mind, he was a star on the rise. It just took some time. People today also forget or don’t understand, when he was making his name early on most radio stations and the music press and the general public wanted nothing to do with him at all. It was only years later that he became so iconic and revered. In 1972 he was nobody outside a very small circle of avant-garde, forward-thinking music fans. Then he became a defining artist of the decade and beyond. He faked it ‘til he made it. It works, but just like magic, only if you really believe it.
1000%: How does it feel to be a self-proclaimed “Rock Star” at a time when all popular music is dominated by Pop and Rap, while mainstream media runs a story nearly every week saying “Rock is Dead”?
Shawn: It feels wonderful. Very healthy. It’s much cooler to be part of the underground anyway, more Punk Rock. Major mainstream media attention is grossly unattractive to me. That’s never been my goal. There’s a bootleg of a Doors song called “Rock Is Dead” with Jim Morrison singing that line over and over. That was from 1969, so you do the math.
1000%: Interesting. What’s up next for you and your label Ghostwood Country Club and all the different projects you have going on?
Shawn: More and more of everything. More shows, more music. I’m excited to keep playing with Olivia Hellman, her music is super fun and catchy, I really get a kick out of playing it. We’re playing Piano’s in September. She’s a phenomenal talent, an incredible singer and I have a blast with that project. I get to just focus on playing guitar, which is a nice change sometimes from being the singer and guitarist.
Obviously Sunrisers is my favorite. We have a lot of positive momentum going, our shows keep getting better and crazier and the fans have a really great time. We’re actively looking to expand our reach into different venues and locations, looking around the Northeast where we can start booking tours here and there to stretch out a bit. Playing with Joey and Tommy is a dream come true in itself. We have a perfect chemistry together that keeps getting better and tighter and more expressive every time we jam. That band means everything to me. I hope we can record a few new songs, maybe even an EP before the end of the year. It’s real Rock N’ Roll, it’s the real thing. It’s the band I’ve been working toward and hoping for my entire life and career.
1000%: Exciting! And how about Sons of Jack? You’re managing the catalog now, correct?
Shawn: Yeah, that’s been a really fun and positive aspect of running the label, bringing all that music back to life, so to speak, via platforms people are using now. At the time of Sons of Jack peak, we were pressing CDs. They’re all still out there somewhere. We didn’t sell thousands but definitely hundreds, across the country. I’ve been listening to our first album, Witness At The Revival a lot. I love it so much I’ve been playing it on repeat, which was not the case for a few years after we went our separate ways. I always loved the songs, I just needed some space for a while. Now I listen and I’m in total awe of what we created. Some tracks I had forgotten about and I hear them again now, I’m knocked out by how good they are. Songs like “Silent Rooms”, “You Can’t Have Time Delivered”, you know, the deeper cuts, beyond the singles we had. I’m very proud of that music and collaboration. That project was incredibly special to me and near and dear to my heart, and always will be.
1000%: So Witness At The Revival, is that out now on streaming?
Shawn: Not yet, that will be the next release, sometime this fall. So far I’ve put out Nine Ten Eleven, which is the live album from our show at Webster Hall on September 10th, 2011 and the first EP Welcome To Your Everything. It makes me incredibly happy just knowing the music is out there for people to hopefully embrace and enjoy. It holds up. Amazing band, amazing people. I miss them!
1000%: You were talking before about Hunter Thompson and Fear & Loathing and the American Dream. There’s a lot of fear and loathing going around the country now. What are your thoughts on that?
Shawn: It’s my job as a musician to bring people together. Music is all about community and unity and different people coming together in celebration of love, life and the pursuit of happiness. That aspect is one of, if not the central reason I chose music as my path and my career. Really in all honesty it chose me. Regardless whether I’m playing a show for five thousand people in a sold-out theater or for five people in an empty bar, we’re coming together in unity, in joyfulness through music. It’s so important, for me individually and for the collective consciousness, the world community, locally and globally. Music is church to me, it is my church.
1000%: Obviously we all love music, but what are your politics? It’s an important subject to a lot of people, especially now.
Shawn: I don’t like the idea of artists being politicians or vice versa. I’m not a politician. People need to think critically and think for themselves. Don’t ask me.
1000%: You’re certainly not in danger of being mistaken for a politician. Not with that haircut! (laughs) But I’m genuinely curious and I’m sure our readers are wondering, where do you lean politically?
Shawn: (long pause) Part of what’s really frustrating about the modern internet age is the over-sharing of opinions, and the expectation that I have something to say, or even want to say anything about any of these subjects. It’s a personal private thing that I’m not going to parade or proclaim for anyone to agree or disagree with.
1000%: So you’re afraid of what people will say or how they’ll react if you share your opinions?
Shawn: Have you ever heard the song "Opinion" by Kurt Cobain? It’s a really great song. They never did it with Nirvana but there’s a recording of him doing it on acoustic at some radio show. Look for it, it’s worth it.
1000%: Don’t you think someone with your voice and influence can have sway over or at least guide people to the causes and issues that are important to you?
Shawn: That’s not my job. My job is to make the best possible music and art I can for people to enjoy, or not, to help them have some joy and feel free and escape from whatever worry or stress they have in their day-to-day lives.
1000%: So you’re promoting escapism?
Shawn: I’m promoting my new album, To Live Outside The Law You Must Be Honest. I’m also promoting my show at the Hart Bar, Thursday September 29th. We play at 9:00 pm. Tickets are only ten bucks. Beyond that I’m promoting Sunrisers, Sons of Jack, more of my solo music and so on. That was the premise of this interview.
1000%: So there are no causes or issues that are important to you? Just ‘Rock On’ and ‘Party On’, that’s it?
Shawn: Of course there are causes and issues that are important to me. I’m a real human being. I have a heart and mind and soul, I’m not some algorithm. I’m not a bot. There are many issues and causes. Many.
1000%: OK, exactly. So what issues are important to you? Just name a few, for the sake of conversation, that’s all.
Shawn: Issue? I don’t even know you.
1000%: OK, fine. Who are you lending your support to and planning to vote for in the upcoming Presidential election?
(Long pause. He looks down at the table, sips his drink, then puts on mirrored aviator sunglasses. He looks back up at me, sullen and clearly unhappy with this topic. We wait it out. We’re definitely at a disadvantage in this staring contest, as Shawn is now wearing reflective shades and we are not. The tension is palpable. Finally, after an agonizing silence, he answers.)
Shawn: I don’t take voting lightly and I don’t take it for granted. I appreciate you respecting my right to privacy in this regard.
1000%: I respect your privacy, but many people are saying the future of the country is at stake. That doesn’t bother you? You don’t have any opinion on that?
Shawn: I haven’t eaten beef in over ten years, so steak just isn’t on the menu for me at all.
1000%: I understand your reluctance to go on record with this. I’m not trying to corner you into endorsing one candidate versus the other. Let’s back up a bit. If you were to just think in terms of colors, let’s say leaning Blue or leaning Red, which one would you chose?
Shawn: Would you excuse me?
1000%: Of course.
He gets up, takes a sip of his half-finished drink, adjusts the black bandana hanging from his left hip and glides off toward the bathroom. We check that the audio recording has saved correctly and contemplate what food to pick from the very lavish menu. We’re so engrossed in the appetizer choices and our phone and the champagne that it’s not until the waiter has asked for the second time if we’re ready to order that we realize Shawn has yet to return. How long has it been? Has it really been close to a half hour since he strolled away?
Indeed it has. We pay the check, carefully saving the receipt for Nicola at Almost Famous. We make a mental note to be more subtle in our questions going forward and exit the restaurant slightly rattled but with a smirk, thinking; how appropriate! We’ve been ghosted by Shawn Ghost.
“Lions” - the single from the new album is now available. Click here to listen.
To Live Outside The Law You Must Be Honest will be released on Friday, August 30th via Ghostwood Country Club, exclusive to Bandcamp only. Click here to follow Ghostwood Country Club.
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